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So, just for fun, let’s say that this Birth Certificate fiasco turns out to be something that prevents Senator Barack Hussein Obama from becoming or serving as President, due to him being other than a ‘natural born’ citizen….
Skrik, by Edvard Munch
Yep. That’s my natural reaction, too. This isn’t one of those factual articles, but more the ‘thinking out loud’ kind of thing, since there’s really no clear case law or references that I have been able to find.
Oh, and folks? This isn’t splitting hairs. This isn’t a ‘technicality’. This isn’t trivial. It’s an honest, legitimate, bipartisan concern.
Don’t be influenced by the same folks who tell you that Obama’s association with William Ayers is also trivial and insignificant, since Ayers’ sins were committed so long ago. These are the same folks who would JUMP on the chance to prosecute (and rightfully so) a 98 year old KKK member for his participation in a church bombing 50 years ago. Following our laws is NOT subject to your political whims.
It could, of course, be solved with a $10 fee and a phone call by Senator Obama. Instead, he and the DNC have dispatched teams of lawyers and ‘researchers’ to deal with what should be a very simple matter.
If this man’s judgment dictates that he resolve a very simple ‘trivial technicality’ in this way, how do you think he’s going to deal with running the U.S. Government on a daily basis? Just a thought.
When do we find out?
Three choices here, at least pertaining to the Presidency…..so let’s say it’s determined via the Courts (Justice Roberts, are you listening here?) that we find out that, Constitutionally, Obama can’t serve as President, and we find this out:
Before the election…
My absolute preference here. We need to resolve this issue immediately. If this should happen before the election, would the Democratic Party have to have a do-over convention? Do they take the ‘runner up’? Wouldn’t Hillary be the runner up and not Biden? Does Joe go back to taking the train home again? OR, since some folks have already voted (early voting, absentee, etc.), does the entire election, which hasn’t even happened yet, get invalidated somehow?
After the election, and (assuming an Obama win as decried in the media these days) before the inauguration…
If this happens after an Obama win, would it make Biden the President Elect? Hardly seems appropriate. Would the election have to be invalidated? Can we CONSTITUTIONALLY hold a Presidential Election on ANY day but the first Tuesday in November? Would we have to wait to resolve it until NEXT November? Do we have to endure ANOTHER YEAR of this insanity that’s become our ‘democratic process’?
After the inauguration, assuming an Obama win…….
Does Biden become VP if we finally discover that Obama’s ineligible? (unlikely) If the ticket was elected based on what amounts to fraud, even if it’s an “honest” mistake on Obama’s part (yeah, okay), it seems to me the entire election would still need to be declared Null and Void.
The biggest question of all might be this:
If it turns out that the (according to the always-honest-corporately-controlled-mainstream-media) favorite candidate is ineligible to serve as President, is this the second False Flag in this election which would enable George W. Bush to remain in office via “Directive 51” or other means?
Lots of questions, I know, and NOT many answers. Updates: Here and Here and Here and Here. And here. And here. And here. Berg v Obama Decision here.
Filed under: biden, Constitutional Rights, Corporate Media, Criminals in Government, democrats, election, False Flag, hussein, martial law, news, obama, Politics, republicans, truthers | Tagged: birth certificate, constitutional law, democrats, directive 51, election, hawaii, lawsuit, news, obama, Politics, presidency, succession |
The Mobius Trip 
It’s frightening to think that a candidate could get this far without having to prove his citizenship status. I am concerned because if he actually gets in office then it would take impeachment to remove him, and a democratically controlled congress would not do it – as a matter of fact, I fear they may actually try to amend the constitution to change the POTUS requirements.
These are dangerous times we live in.
If we have gotten this far in the process and Obama is ignoring the Constitution then something else is really rotten in Denmark as the saying goes—and that should be of greater concern. Apparently we have lost control already as the DNC cleared Obama to run.
Well unless I’m mistaken (has happened before), the DNC is a private organization and not an arm of the US Government. They’ve no obligation to uphold our Constitution. WHOEVER is responsible for ‘vetting’ the candidates certainly did little more than a glance-over at this, and should be held responsible. I suppose it’s entirely possible that there really exists no formal responsibility for such things, in which case it’s left to US to do….hopefully as we’re doing here in these last days leading up to the election.
The son or daughter of a US citizen is considered to be a natural born citizen. As Obama’s MOTHER was a US citizen, Obama became a citizen at birth and he is eligible for the presidency.
Our governor the honorable Linda Lingle is a Republican. She addressed the RNC and is currently stomping to John McCain. Wouldn’t she be derelict in not investigating if Obama was truly born in Hawaii.
Oops! Maybe because there is no meat for one to sink there teeth in it.
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
Joseph Goebbels-Propaganda Minister for the Nazi Party
The law in effect at the time he was born specified that “If only one parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of your birth, that parent must have resided in the United States for at least ten years, at least five of which had to be after the age of 16.” Since Barack Obama only had one U.S. citizen parent (his mother), and his mother had not been residing in the U.S. for at least five years after the age of 16 when Barack was born (because she herself was only 18 at the time), then he’s not a natural-born citizen. It’s cited very clearly in Berg vs. Obama, et al.
I would venture to guess that the fact that Obama’s mother was a minor (in 1961 the age of majority was 21) will also factor into the above, I’m just not sure which way – it could certainly be argued either way.
Thanks for commenting! Best way to get everything on this out in the open and make an intelligent decision about it is through discourse just like this, since nobody else seems to be responsible for the thorough vetting of the candidates.
KalihiValley Boy:
I don’t think the lawsuit calls for any kind of investigation…and probably wouldn’t be appropriate at this point anyway. It simply asks to produce an original birth certificate as filled out by the attending physician in 1961.
It’s $10 and a phone call for Senator Obama to put this matter to conclusive rest for all time. I venture to say it would even be something that the campaign would pay for.
Instead they’re spending thousands of dollars in attorney and campaign resource time simply stonewalling and pretending that it’s not even a relevant issue.
That’s not the action of people who have nothing to hide. Just sayin.
$10, and if he calls with his cell phone after 7PM or on a weekend he doesn’t even have to pay for the call.
Could be that the State of Hawaii would waive the ten bucks if he asked real nicely. They’ll still charge him $.25 cents a copy, but when you’re dealing with lawyers, every Xerox copy gets accounted for, marked WAY up and then charged to the customer. My guess is the DNC has racked up a couple thousand bucks easily in Kinko’s charges alone.
The guy’s asking us to give him the United States Checkbook so he can go spend some money on a lot of stuff. He can cough up $10 to verify beyond question that he’s eligible to do so under our Constitution.
[…] Here and Here and Here and […]
Readers – citizens – need to remember that Adolf Hitler, an Austrian, was duly elected in Germany in 1933. Everyone knows the result. No German would have ever done their own country that way. There is a reason the founders put that in there: simply put, they realized that no man can serve two masters.
There just seem to be not end to this guys background. This guy has so much hidden luggage that it would make Clinton seem like an angel. And this is the guy that is running ahead of our hero, a man of distinguised moral and respect. How can anyone vote for Mr Obama, having such a clean honest canditate. Please tell me.
There’s not a doubt in my mind O’bama is going to Hawaii to get his grandmother disposed of. She’s the only one who can really blow the whistle on him!
If Obama is disqualified from being nominated for the us presidency due his not being a citizen of the usa, why with our speed of light computers ,and information age technology, and patriot act investigative mechanisms, has this defect in his his right to be a presidential nominee exposed the day that he/ obama announced that he was running for president. He is according to constitutional law absolutely unqualified to be a USA president . He is not a citizen. Its over for obama . Now Mr Obama has to bow out graciously by telling the world that he would have loved serving as the us president but the us constitution prohibited him from holding office. Obama is an amazingly eloquent speaker with messianic qualities. However according to the constitution he is not a legal naturalized us citizen, and his body guards and silver canes are no match for the words of thomas jefferson, and james madison. Obama is finished.
CORRECTION /THOMAS JEFFERSON WAS NOT A SIGNER OF THE US CONSTITUTION BUT GENERAL AND PRESIDENT GEORGE WASHINGTON WAS ALONG WITH ALEXANDER HAMILTON AND GOVERNER LIVINGSTON OF NJ AND MANY OTHER GREAT AMERICAN PATRIOTS
when obama doesnt produce a valid b/c then the judge will disqualify him from the race. hillary will step in. the election will be pushed back 2 weeks and hillary will win !!!
Eh, I dunno about that. I believe the date for the election (first Tuesday in November) is set by law or by the Constitution. Far too lazy to go look it up. Besides, WHY would we have to accommodate the Dems for their mistake? Howard Dean should’ve vetted this guy a little more closely.
The 20th amendment to the constitution covers this. After election the winning candidate becomes “president elect” until he assumes office on January 20th at noon. During this period of time the constitution states that the president-elect must be qualified (qualification = 35 yrs. old, resident of the U.S. for 14 yrs, and natural born citizen) and if he fails to qualify then the vice president-elect (who must also qualify) become acting president until such time as a president is qualified. Presumably a qualified president is found by a new election.
Ah, thanks for that clarification. The text of the 20th Amendment appears here:
Section 1. The terms of the President and Vice President shall end at noon on the 20th day of January, and the terms of Senators and Representatives at noon on the 3d day of January, of the years in which such terms would have ended if this article had not been ratified; and the terms of their successors shall then begin.
Section 2. The Congress shall assemble at least once in every year, and such meeting shall begin at noon on the 3d day of January, unless they shall by law appoint a different day.
Section 3. If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.
Section 4. The Congress may by law provide for the case of the death of any of the persons from whom the House of Representatives may choose a President whenever the right of choice shall have devolved upon them, and for the case of the death of any of the persons from whom the Senate may choose a Vice President whenever the right of choice shall have devolved upon them.
Section 5. Sections 1 and 2 shall take effect on the 15th day of October following the ratification of this article.
Section 6. This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified as an amendment to the Constitution by the legislatures of three-fourths of the several States within seven years from the date of its submission.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twentieth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
It’s STILL going to end up in court, probably the Supreme Court. Who do you think would win THAT battle?
Besides, if it’s been publicly questioned, why are we waiting until after the election to qualify the winner? WHO does the qualification?
It’s all very fuzzy, still. Waving the “20th” flag isn’t the end of it by any means.
The kicker here is that the constitution does not demand any candidate be pre-qualified prior to the election. It only demands he or she be qualifed before assuming office on January 20th. One might also note the president-elect has no executive privilege that normally prevents the judicial branch of government from issuing search warrants and other legal interventions against sitting presidents.
There are now lawsuits demanding qualification in 8 states and the number is growing. These lawsuits won’t go away on November 4th. They’ll only intensify as per the 20th amendment it becomes a constitutional right of all U.S. citizens to see the documents and testimony which qualify a president-elect. In other words, if any or all pending lawsuits are dismissed due to lack of standing that becomes moot after the election as every citizen has constitutional standing.
So why doesn’t Barack Hussein Obama II simply give us the documentation proving his qualification (his original birth certificate filled out in 1961 ostensibly on file in Hawaii’s birth certificate vault) to end all these lawsuits? That my friends is the $64,000 question. I can only presume he won’t authorize its release because it either doesn’t exist or that it will show he is indeed not a natural born citizen. What other reason could there be?
If this man solves ALL our problems like this, we’re in trouble. $10 and a phone call (as Mobius puts it) vs costly long drawn out legal battles.
This isn’t change. It’s Richard Nixon politics at its finest.
Yes, this will ultimately end up in the USSC. We can reasonably presume that there will be a 4/4 split among the usual suspects (4 conservative justices and 4 liberal justices) with wild-card Justice Kennedy breaking the tie. Kennedy usually votes along conservative lines but breaks more than anyone else. We know how he voted in 2000 when GW Bush was famously “selected”. This is even more clear cut. The constitution is lax as it is in who may get the briefcase with the nuclear launch codes in it. To ignore one of only three low bars won’t be tolerated.
Most of you probably know the president of the United States has the highest military security clearance in the land. What you probably don’t know is that the security clearance automatically comes with the office. Everyone else getting anywhere near that kind of security clearance is extensively investigated by the FBI, the CIA, and Homeland Security including the recipient having to take a polygraph test. Obama, with his associations and travel history Obama could not get even a low level security clearance if he was a non-elected person seeking one.
At this point I think what everyone in government from the FEC to the DNC to all the Secretaries of all the States to all federal judges who will have to face the qualification issue are silently hoping that McCain wins the election fair & square. In that case the United States is saved from a huge embarrassment and probably violent civil unrest should Obama win and then fail to qualify by what a lot of the unwashed masses will call “a technicality” i.e. not a natural born citizen.
That’s what I’m hoping for – a clean McCain win. Otherwise there’s a real problem brewing. At this juncture in history with a global economic crisis, the U.S. in two wars, Russia rattling its sabers, can we risk not having a smooth transition of power following this election? Is it a good time to test new waters by having an “acting president” Joe Biden while a new election takes place with all due haste?
Why doesn’t Obama produce the requested documents to end this now?
What’s he hiding?
Why is he doing this?
Is this behavior “presidential”?
If you want to get into real conspiracy theories try this one on for size.
Obama just travelled to Hawaii alone in a private 767 jet. Fully fueled it can reach Indonesia. Once it leaves Hawaii it is over international waters and change its flight plan to arrive in Indonesia. Say Obama still has a valid Indonesian passport. Indonesia is one of 50 countries in the world without an extradition treaty with the United States. Obama would be safe from U.S. law. Now say he has an overseas bank account that he’s been building up from various sources that Chicago Machine politicians are noted for. He could get a $20,000,0000 advance on his next book easy. And he’d be beloved by Indonesia as would his wife and children and all the rest of his family.
I wonder if In-Trade is taking bets on whether he returns to the United States from Hawaii? Wait for the next news to be that Obama has some relatives in Indonesia that he’s going to visit for a spell.
Now THAT my friends is a proper conspiracy theory.
This mess stopped being a theory the moment the lawsuits were filed and a long-form BC wasn’t produced by Obama. Perhaps if he moves we’ll be as successful at hunting him down as we have been in hunting down that other mythical figure – oSama.
Thank You, Mobius. You’ve answered one of my questions. Now, as a lone law enforcement (white) office, in a predominatly black neighborhood, do I retire early??? Closest back-up is 20 mins away, with bigger hot spots there.
Did anyone see Obama’s plane land back in the states? I saw a picture of him boarding for the return flight. In all the pictures during the trip (which were very few) he looked as depressed as anyone I’ve ever seen. I think toot told him she wasn’t going to lie and say he was born in Hawaii and that if and when questioned she would tell the truth. The purpose of the trip was to try to talk her out of it. Grandma Dunham will be subpoenaed eventually if this continues.
So stick a fork in Obama. He’s done. It’s just a matter of whether it’s before or after the election. If he had any real patriotism he’d withdraw now. The longer this goes on the worse the consequences for the nation. The only thing I can think of at this point is Obama wants to prove that a black man can be elected to President of the United States.
The press is the real criminal in all this. The press is supposed to be the unbiased guardians of the truth and they’ve been in the tank for Obama since the word go. They caused Hillary to lose the primary, they caused McCain to be constantly on the defensive, and now they’re going to be responsible for the biggest scandal in American politics since Watergate.
If anyone is interested in my conspiracy…
The Democrats want Ms Hillary as Pres. I feel, against McCain, it would have been an up hill battle, and expensive. They got obama and really pushed. So he wins (big), but can’t serve due to no b/c, or wrong b/c. So as the Democrate have won, and if I read 20th amend right, they can select anyone qualified to be president. Slip in Ms Hillary. Several people who are voting for obama said they would definately NOT vote for Ms Hillary, but too late after the 4th. Your democratic vote is counted.
Just my thought.
Dems are counting on a super majority in this election. Should BHO be proved an ineligible fraud vs merely a run of the mill Dem fraud- the newly elected legislative branch will simply pass a new Constitutional amendment to remedy the unfortunate and completely unforeseen circumstances, The Defense of Barrack H. Obama Act… Poof- problem solved!
If Obama is found to be ineligible you can look very definitely for a Democratic attempt to amend the Constitution to Allow foreign Nationals to hold the office of President. There is a danger to that because it would serve as a precedent, and people like Usama could legally run for president. With the volume of kooks that we now have in this country Bin Laden would probably win the White House. Unfortuantely the kooks would later lose——-their lives.
Bin Laden? Bin Laden’s a fairy tale patsy. More myth than man.
Good point, though. Fucking Schwarzenegger would run. Eeesh.
They can’t quite rush through a Constitutional Amendment the way they railroaded everyone on the Bailout. That would take years.
As everyone should know the real election is not on 4 Nov 08. The election occurs sometime after 4 Nov but before 20 Jan when the electoral college meets to chose the president. When you vote on 4 Nov you are merely voting for a slate of electors who are pledged to that candidate. What would be the impact if this is exposed after 4 Nov but before the electoral college meets versus after the electoral college meets?
.
The last time I checked a Constitutional Amendment requires 2/3 of both Houses and 3/4 of the state legislatures. Even with a huge democratic victory it isu nlikely that they could get such an amendment through without some considerable Republican support.
The plain fact is that at this time, it is not public knowledge whether or not “Obama” is qualified to be President. And until that time that he proves he is qualified, you are safe to not recognize him as President.
Why he does not prove he is qualified is anyone’s guess.
Cert likely will be granted by the Supreme Court shortly after December 1. Accordingly, President-elect Obama will be “required” to prove he is legally qualified to be sworn in as our next President as provided in the United States Constitution (natural-born citizenship issue). Unless, the Supreme Court finds that President-elect Obama is legally qualified to be sworn in as our next President, “The Rule of Law” and the United States Constitution will trump the 2008 Presidential Election results. Accordingly, President-elect Obama would be declared ineligible to become President of the United States. The slate of Presidential Electors that will cast votes for our next President is legally bound to follow the United States Constitution and all applicable rulings of the Supreme Court. To be continued…
I do hope that the court tomorrow will release Obama’s birth certificate for all American’s to know first hand the truth: is he a US citizen or not? This is not right and I believe he does has something to hide. Gosh, how did he even get to where he is now as president elect? I will never respect this man, he’s dishonest from the get go. His slow talking ways and double talk. People tend to believe this man though like the knight on a black horse, sickening and such gullible people who don’t want to learn and think for themselves.
Directive 51? so in other words were screwed. great. so much history, so much scandel
OK, so how did this get to this point? And why does no one want McCain’s birth certificate? He for sure was born off US soil. I think the question here is the age of his mother at the time of his birth, and a 1960’s rule about the age of majority. None of this is Obama’s fault, and he was raised in the US, schooled in the US, and loves this country. And if he was born in Hawaii to an American citizen (however young) and is NOT a US citizen, just what is he?
I still trust him far more than McCain and the ethically challenged beauty queen who still can’t say “nuclear.”
I cannot believe that we might be stuck with Bush/Cheney while this is sorted out! (Or worse, McCain/Palin.) Say it ain’t so, Barack!
McCain’s probably irrelevant at this point. Even if Obama was found ineligible, they’d keep the dems in office (although an appropriate remedy would be to re-do the whole election, I believe).
This is not a partisan issue, however. It’s a Constitutional issue. Obama must prove to the electorate and the citizens that he was, in fact, born in the US. There’s enough legitimate question on that issue which needs clarification, and Obama could have solved this problem months ago, yet refuses as if it is none of our business.
Hawaii law made it possible for him to be born somewhere other than Hawaii and still receive a Hawaiian COLB.
We’re looking for transparency, accountability and cooperation, and we’re getting none of that. They’re stonewalling as if it’s none of our business, and we’ll see a LOT more secrecy and nanny government as this threat to our union moves forward.
If PEBO is found ineligible then Biden does become President of the United States. You see the electors vote for the President and Vice President on separate ballots. Who ever gets the most votes is President and the runner up is VP. Now lets look at the Constitution under section 19
Vacancy in offices of both president and vice president; officers eligible to act
§ 19. (a) (1) If, by reason of death, resignation, removal from office, inability, or failure to qualify, there is neither a President nor Vice President to discharge the powers and duties of the office of President, then the Speaker of the House of Representatives shall, upon his resignation as Speaker and as Representative in Congress, act as President.
SO because Biden would have enough votes to become VP he by default assumes the office of president. His first official act would be to appoint a VP, probably Hillary.